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Pub's trade is hit by smoking ban

3:52pm Monday 26th November 2007

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By Liza-Jane Gillespie »

A LANDLORD in Berkeley has warned that the five-month-old smoking ban is killing his business.

Charles Andrews, landlord of the Mariners' Arms in Berkeley, said people were being put off going outside to smoke because of the colder weather.

He said: "I think since the colder weather arrived it is having a big effect.

"People are thinking I don't want to go to the pub because if I want to smoke I've got to go outside."

England became smoke-free at the start of July. The law was introduced to protect employees and outlawed smoking in virtually all enclosed public places including pubs, clubs, bars and restaurants.

Mr Andrews, who has owned the Mariners' Arms for four years, said that in the last month he has had to reduce his staffing costs by 20 per cent by reducing hours and not replacing employees who leave.

He said: "I'm extremely worried about the pub. I'm trying to cut costs. If I can't cut my costs enough the pub could be facing an uncertain future."

Mr Andrews said he is trying to attract new customers to his pub with food offers and by providing an outdoor shelter for smokers.

"I've been trying to keep a brave face and be optimistic.

I hoped that the ban might see some more people who don't smoke come to the pub but that hasn't happened.

"With the warmer weather we didn't see a massive change, but now with the colder weather there has been quite a drop in the last month," he added.

Dr Susan Hatton, 59, of Berkeley, who is a retired doctor, is a regular at the Mariners' Arms.

She said: "I think we are in grave danger of losing the pub. I am not against the ban completely. I don't know why we can't have most of the pub smoke free and then just have a smoking room.

"There is an elderly gentleman who smokes a pipe. He has a wife with Alzheimer's, who he cares for, and his one pleasure of the day is to have a pint and his pipe but now he has to go and stand outside in the cold."

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Your Say YourDursley

Donnie, UK says...
8:00pm Mon 26 Nov 07

This smoking ban is a gross infringement of private property rights. Whether smoking takes place on the premises should be the owners choice and no one elses. Pubs are privately owned not publically owned, no one is forced over the threshold of a pub no one is forced to work there. I think it is absolutely disgusting the way this government is treating smokers who at the end of the day are buying a perfectly legal product 4/5th of the cost being tax. They dont care a fig about the elderly at all. the sooner this uncaring, spiteful government is voted out the better.

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DaveA, Somwhere out west says...
9:47pm Mon 26 Nov 07

Pin a medal on Dr. Susan Hatton.Common sense and the truth have been the first casualties of the smoking ban. As Deputy Regional Director of www.freedom2choose.i
nfo one fact that I have picked up is that there are a minority of non smokers who sincerely don't like smoke. However the majority of smokers and non smokers are tolerent and just want a separate well ventlated room where we can all be sociable. Long live freedom and choice.

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mandyv, cambs says...
10:24pm Mon 26 Nov 07

I agree with Mr Andrew about smokers not wanting to go out, I have not been out since the cold weather came along or my Hubby. I am a smoker and he is a lifelong never smoker. He would have been happy with ventilated areas. That way it caters for us both. He does not want to sit in the pub like a larry, and I am not spending money to freeze.
I echo the comments above also.
8th August 2006 the HSE in their document OC 255/15 article9 state
" HSE cannot produce epidemiological evidence to link levels of exposure to second hand smoke to the raised risk of contacting specific diseases".
Smokers have already been restricted during working hours, why would we want to put up with restrictions, whildt we relax.
This spiteful ban was a no brainer from the start, that is what I think to politicians, well the 3 major parties. They have no idea what they have destroyed or carry on destroying, our pub culture. This ban has caused hatred and intolerance. It is based on lies and unscientific facts. The media helped to perpetuate them also.
Compensation should be paid to those that lose money to this forced agenda. Farmers are paid compensation when they are forced to kill their livestock (quite rightly) with the mistakes that have been made over the years.
This has now become a witch-hunt by fanatics, that this goverment have bowed down too.

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John, Richmond says...
8:33am Tue 27 Nov 07

What of the rights on nonsmokers? Every one has the right to chose. Smokers chose to become drug adicts, no one forced them. I chose not to smoke. Where is my right to go to a pub and not be poisoned by the junkies arround me who all seem to believe they have a god given right to kill people while persueing their drug adiction. I do not see a problem for smokers. They can still buy and smoke tobacco. The only change, for the good, is that they can't now inflict their smoke of others inside. Smokers inflict the results of their pleasure on me by damaging my health and making my cloths and hair smell like a garden bonfire, without my permission. I like a pint, the residue, of which, is Urine. How would a smoker feel if I stood on a chair and **** all over his/her hair and cloths? Come on you MPs and ban smoking everywhere except private houses.

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John Baker, Middlesbrough, Cleveland says...
9:55am Tue 27 Nov 07

Here we go again, another rabid anti smoker calling smokers junkies! Did you not read anything below? Your hatred of smokers who just want to keep well away from your sort in a warm environment does no credit to your inteligence! Get a life. www.freedom2choose.i





nfo

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RTS, says...
11:26am Tue 27 Nov 07

Yup, same old, same old from the anti-smoking front. He even used the tired old "urinating on your head" analogy that anti-smokers SO love.
Lets get one thing straight; you have NO RIGHT to enter a pub. A pub is private property and the bar owner has the right to exlude anyone he wishes. You are a guest in his place of business which is why you sound like a loony demanding he provide you with an environment of your suiting raher than of his own.
The reason why we *needed* a ban rather than letting market forces sort it was simple; insufficient demand. Despite all the press coverage about how wonderful the ban is and how widespread the support is for it pubs are going out of business at an unprecedented rate with the rural pub being in real jeopardy of becomming a thing of the past all because anti-smokers didn't want to compromise.

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KPB, the doldrums says...
12:26pm Tue 27 Nov 07

I hope Mr. Andrews thinks twice about installing a smoking shelter. ASH's next milestone on their journey to to a completely smoke-free country comes in three years time with a ban on smoking on any public property, including the outside,

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DaveA, Somwhere out West says...
12:55pm Tue 27 Nov 07

John Of Richmond: Not only are you a bigot but you did not read my post. I appreciate that there are a minority of people like you who don't like a smokey atmosphere. This is easily rectified with separate pubs or separate rooms. If there were glass sealed and ventilated, ridding the atmosphere of 99.97% of smoke,(this is how effective modern extractors are), would you still object? My guess is that you would, although you would still want to sleep in your clothes and avoid washing in the morning.

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Tim Clarke, Lancs, Englanf says...
2:30pm Tue 27 Nov 07

John wrote:
What of the rights on nonsmokers? Every one has the right to chose. Smokers chose to become drug adicts, no one forced them. I chose not to smoke. Where is my right to go to a pub and not be poisoned by the junkies arround me who all seem to believe they have a god given right to kill people while persueing their drug adiction. I do not see a problem for smokers. They can still buy and smoke tobacco. The only change, for the good, is that they can't now inflict their smoke of others inside. Smokers inflict the results of their pleasure on me by damaging my health and making my cloths and hair smell like a garden bonfire, without my permission. I like a pint, the residue, of which, is Urine. How would a smoker feel if I stood on a chair and **** all over his/her hair and cloths? Come on you MPs and ban smoking everywhere except private houses.
Please name 3 people killed by passive smoking.

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Dennis, Cambs says...
2:58pm Tue 27 Nov 07

I really do wonder if antis like John actually go to pubs.They don't seem to show any concern over a persons business struggling, as a result of this unecesssary piece of legislation.I've yet to hear these extreme views "in the bar" & I'm pretty sure most pubgoing folk would welcome a return to things as they were.
I mean however strong your anti smoking views are, surely a smokey pub is better than no pub at all?

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chas, suffolk says...
4:05pm Tue 27 Nov 07

Tim. You have asked a question which nobody can answer. Tim wants EVERY pub to be smoke free so that HE can choose which pub to go to.

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chas, suffolk says...
4:27pm Tue 27 Nov 07

Sorry Tim. I should have said JOHN wants EVERY pub to be smoke free. Apologies.

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Bill C, Wiltshire says...
7:21pm Tue 27 Nov 07

Smokers have compromised with the anti-smoking elements in our society and where has it got us? A total ban.

We should remember there is a huge diffrence between non-smokers and anti-smokers. It is the anti-smokers who are the minority in this debate. Bring back choice. John of Richmond - you a more than welcome to your smokefree paradise. Just let some of us find our paradise and preferably as far away from the likes of you.

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Barney Breet, Manchester says...
8:22pm Tue 27 Nov 07

Extract from the Birmingham Mail "readers call for an end to pub smoking ban"

Nov 27 2007

By Emma Cullwick, Birmingham Mail


Quote :
"BIRMINGHAM Mail readers have voted in their hundreds to call on the Government to lift the controversial ban on smoking in public places.

The Mail reported last week how landlords at pubs and clubs across the city, including Hurst Street and Harborne, fear the ban is wiping Birmingham off the entertainment map.

They say trade is plummeting as smokers opt to smoke at home rather than having to do it in the cold outdoors since the ban was introduced on July 1.

In a special investigation, we revealed how landlords were uniting to lobby the Government to have a re-think on the legislation.

The Mail asked readers whether they believe the ban should be lifted."

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Noel, Nottingham says...
9:18pm Tue 27 Nov 07

The government won’t respond to any formal protest over this and if ‘KPB, the doldrums’ is correct then the present draconian law is just a way of softening us up for the next several. What is needed here is more drastic action by publicans who wish to allow smoking in their premises.
On July 1 many pubs continued to allow smoking for that day and I didn’t hear of anyone being prosecuted. Perhaps if all these landlords put their heads together and organized a particular day in which countrywide smoking was by all of them allowed we might see some results. Of course they’d have to do some word of mouth advertising to let the smokers know they’d be welcomed in from the cold that day and to inform John from Richmond who incidentally I would not like to share a bar with, that he must behave in a cleanly manner or stay away.
I honestly believe the authorities would be powerless to do anything against this, and it would make a very big point they couldn’t disregard.

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Tim Clarke, Lancs, England says...
10:51pm Tue 27 Nov 07

Interesting you should say that Noel, because there is such a day - 31st December is National Smoking Day (google it).

Personally, I don't think it goes far enough. If enough landlords bandied together and decided to disobey the law, the courts would grind to a halt trying to prosecute them all.

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gwyn, holywell says...
11:27pm Tue 27 Nov 07

Ten thousand people marched through Paris this past Wednesday to protest the upcoming draconian French smoking ban.

http://forces.org/Ne
ws_Portal/news_viewe
r.php?id=576
Check it out, if the French can do it then why can`t we?.

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Noel, Nottingham says...
12:19am Wed 28 Nov 07

Thanks for the info Tim and Gwyn.Sorry not to be in GB New Years Eve.Glad to know someone would like to take my humble idea one step further.Let's keep this going.

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Tony Blows, Herefordshire says...
5:43pm Wed 28 Nov 07

Its Okay saying why dont more landlords do this we all want to but the fines are huge, £2500 per summons. i stand to lose £10,000 in January if i lose my case, join freedom2choose.info and donate to the fighting fund this is what will pay the fines then maybe more landlords will join in. GET OFF YOUR ARSE AND DONATE AND FIGHT.

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chas, suffolk says...
6:20pm Wed 28 Nov 07

Tony. Why don't all anti-ban groups get together with pub landlords to fight the ban. As one big group will do much better.

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Tony Blows, Herefordshire says...
6:40pm Wed 28 Nov 07

i totaly agree and if you know how come and join us. there are 60 thousand pubs in the country to put a mail shot to them all would cost money we dont have we need a backer who's got a few bob, do you know one?

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Phil Williams, Norfolk says...
6:40pm Wed 28 Nov 07

Now that the public is becoming increasingly aware of the passive smoking fraud, and the government is clutching at straws to defend its complicity. Isn't it time the media sided with the truth and joined the campaign for the restoration of free choice. This government endorsed persecution of smokers is only the first in a long line of repressive legislative acts planned by our corrupt leaders. The only people defending the smoking ban are a minority of selfish bigots that feel they deserve the right to dictate their wishes on others. The low and selfish nature of these anti smokers is evident in their comments, likewise is their inhability to grasp the principle of free choice. These people have either lied or been seduced by the lie and are now defending their failing cause with insults and more lies. The media should seize the opportunity and smash this corruption before too much of our culture and tradition is lost forever. www.freedom2choose.i
nfo

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andy, 1984 says...
7:32pm Wed 28 Nov 07

Its time for the pub trade to fight back. Join freedom2choose.info find out how you can regain your rights.

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Jenny, North Yorkshire says...
8:16pm Wed 28 Nov 07

This is only the start of things to come - a lot of businesses will go under this winter and continue to close. Thousands of jobs will be lost as well as the loss of enjoyment and tradition. Look at freedom2choose.info to find out exactly what is happening and if you agree with us, come and join us.

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NoBanJan, Manchester says...
9:00pm Wed 28 Nov 07

If this country was still a democracy then we would have smoking & non-smoking pubs that would reflect the needs of everyone. If you too are concerned at the way our freedom is being eaten away then visit freedom2choose.info and join in the fight against this dictatorship!

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John, Richmond says...
1:11pm Thu 29 Nov 07

Phil - you are a hiprocrit. You accuse me of dictating to others and here you are doing exactly that. There are two reasons why the Government is right to ban smoking everywhere: first to give business a level playing field. Most people would go to smoking pubs because if only one in say a party of 10 smoked all 10 are likely to go to a smoking pub. Second, any smoking ban not backed by law will not work. Smokers have only now began to use the word compromise, 10 years ago they did not understand its meaning. Every law passed reduces the individuals freedom. You must pay huge sums of what you earn to the Government in tax. The law does not allow people to kill each other, steal their property, injure each other or to smoke inside public buildings. You can't pick and chose which laws to obey, but bad laws can be changed.

Tony, you are right, don't you think smokers pay enough for tobacco without adding fines and costs to this tally. The powers that be have the final answer by withdrawing the licence from pubs who allow smoking thereby closing them. The government will probably be glad if they can raise £250 million a year by fining smokers who break the law.

Dennis, I am one of the non smokers who now go to the pub more often as are about 25 of my friends. One of the thing that has been killing the pub for years is the sky high prices and falling quality of beer. When the brewing and pub industries sort this one then they will attract a lot more customers. Drink prices now put more people off going to the pub before the glorious 1st than smoke.

I do not see a problem for smokers, as I have already stated they can still buy and smoke tobacco but they are now not allowed to kill people with their smoke. So come on and get real and accept the situation, smoking will never bbe allowed in side again.

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chas, suffolk says...
2:30pm Thu 29 Nov 07

John. So you are happy to see our pubs closing. Most pub regulars used to be smokers, but since the ban even those people are drinking at home. As you say, if only one out of a party smoked the other nine would join that person, which shows that the majority of non-smokers (not to be confused with anti-smokers) do not agree with the ban. More over if that smoker stayed at home to drink, wouldn't his nine mates also join him at home. Soon there will be no choice, as there will be few pubs to go to. Also, I don't agree that only one in ten people smoke.

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tug wilson, nottingham says...
5:49pm Thu 29 Nov 07

Well John if you can get another couple of million mates to go to the pubs there wont be a problem,but at the moment things are very bleak for them and us smokers,we will win OUR freedom of choice back very soon.

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RTS, Worcester says...
9:04pm Thu 29 Nov 07

John of Richmond says;
"There are two reasons why the Government is right to ban smoking everywhere: first to give business a level playing field. Most people would go to smoking pubs because if only one in say a party of 10 smoked all 10 are likely to go to a smoking pub."

There is no level playing field and a total ban certainly doesn't create one. How does a landlocked pub with no ability to provide facilities for its smoking clients compete with a pub with a beer garden?

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mandyv, cambs says...
12:47am Fri 30 Nov 07

John, the anti smokers were never banned from opening their own pubsor venues,were they? why didn't they? I would have had a choice to have gone in or not. Many smokers have non-smoking husbands/wives, family,friends, who do not believe all the propaganda to push this spiteful ban through.
Why does no-one ever answer the question, why did you not open your own smokefree places? it is easy to say yes to a ban, when your money is not involved. Do you think those that lose venues who lose out, should at least be compensated? when pubs close or bingo halls, everyone suffers, tolerant non-smokers,antis, and smokers alike. So you are left with many people who are now isolated. So people suffer along with landlords/landladies because the antis are in a minority. You are not filling up all the venues. That is FACT not fiction.
freedom2choose.info for tolerant non-smokers and smokers alike.
You will not make me feel like a second class citizen. Sometime soon you maybe fighting for your right to drink alcohol, the way things are going. When you are fighting the teetotallers, who are calling you abusive names. Maybe then you will see what intolerance and hatred is. That is not healthy for our children or Country.

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mandyv, cambs says...
12:55am Fri 30 Nov 07

Here is someone who could do with some support also. A non-smoker fighting along with Tony and Dave West.
http://uk.youtube.co

m/watch?v=mN-xDlsNXI

I

This is not just about the smoking ban here, google those who will not get employed in some intolerant states in USA if they smoke at home. Heil, I own your body, if you do not stand up and fight. Canada, have banned smoking on the patios outside in some areas. That we can see already happening.
Where is this all going, where is it going to stop!

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